Words mean what they say
Posted by Mike_Doran on 7/14/2009, 7:35 pm
and "Dampened Systems by a Living Earth" do not help your cause much.

The reason that these are dark ages is because of the failure to bridge the time scale to climatology.  There has been an inability to show the design of how weather turns into climate.  That failure is fundimentally an ignorance of electrics.  It's probably a big function of education, too.  That many who are educated in the physics of electrics shy away from the education of fluid dynamics and visa versa. Then comercialization doesn't help with either ken. It is a dark ages.  I mean what my words say. 

My mother held prayer meetings with my brothers and sisters.  I am an atheist now.  I am not sure why you would hold this against me.  Many people pray and deserve respect.

There are three kinds of oscillaters.  Periodic, chaotic and dampened.  Most of the meteorological math delves in chaotic functions.  Most of the biological deal with dampened. 

Dig on this--a fish cannot tell water.


Occum explains away AGW easily:
- It is hotter now because the Sun is hotter.


The bigger problem over larger scales where the hotter sun begins to have a signal is the Carl Sagan essay regarding an ever lumenous sun.  He asks why wasn't the earth an ice block 4 billion years ago as life appears or not a gas ball now?  My answer is the oceans have become more saline--something that a living earth has changed to help feedback living conditions.

 
- It was cooler in the 70's because the Sun was cooler. 

Was it?  Keeling Whorf has a better explaination with tidal cycles in my view.  But temperture isn't the only input that must be modulated.  The sun is more than just radiation and heat.  It is also high freq UV light that splits O2 into ozone, which makes the atmosphere more conductive.  And then the solar winds which are winds of charged particles.  These things are electrical.  And what about the way tropical storms moved in the Atlantic light of the huge dams in South America?  This gets to how the earth took what it got.  Finally, what is dampened or modulated if not just temperature?  If the earth EMF is too strong, it captures particles from space and the atmosphere grows.  If it weakens, the solar winds strip it away.  With electrics tied to climate, it's clear that a thinner atmosphere, particularly at the poles, will lead to non linear convective processes there changing.


- It was hotter in the 30's because the Sun was hotter. 

Do you have evidence of this?  There is clear evidence of river changes in the CONUS, particularly Hoover (Bolder) and this is consistant with how tropical storm seasons in the Atlantic doubled with the formation of the Salton Sea, then the first diversion of Hoover, and CAP in 2004 before the 2005 seasons.  These are correlations that only can be reasonably (and simply per your desire) through Occum.


- It was cooler 10,000 years ago because, well, no one knows for certain, because NO ONE WAS ALIVE!

We are in an interglacial.  In the middle of it, an ice dam broke and caused river movement from the Mississippi delta to an eastern outflow.  This had a dramatic impact of electrical/ocean feedbacks, much like the changes to the Rio/Colorado and Mississippi have had recently.  The Younger Dyas followed.

The bigger and more 'chilling' question is what brings about the super storms that then cause thousands of years of colder, drier climate?  Is it an input, like the sun as you suggest, Milankovitch cycles?  Or could it be in how the earth changing how it reacts to what it gets.  You see very confident that it isn't electrics as a forcing.  But the problem is that if you take water from the ocean and put in on the land in the form of ice, the oceans become more saline, and that is only real interesting (ignoring ATC) if you consider that the more saline the oceans are, the more conductive they are--it causes a non linear change in how clouds work.




Regardless, it is all RELATIVE.  AGW or not.  Occum wins again.

I have heard this argument many times. Sometimes it goes like this.  An ameba is a very simple creature.  To that I say--if the ameba is such a simple creature--try to MAKE ONE!

Climate stability is not a simple creature but it is by and large a product of simple creatures.  In fact the reason they are simple is the climate forcing puts selective pressure on them to not evolve with much complexity.  We wouldn't want the plants walking for water, now would we?
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Dr Gray wrong on global warming - jimw, 7/13/2009, 7:57 pm
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